A Transcript of Investment U's "Live" Interview
MARK SKOUSEN: J. Church wishes to know, "What was your opinion of the other founders, such as George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton and John Adams?" DR. BEN FRANKLIN: I was on very good terms with all of these great men, except from time to time with Mr. Adams. I regarded General Washington as one of the greatest captains of all age, and a friend of all mankind. In my will, I gave him my fine crab-tree walking stick, with a gold head curiously wrought in the form of the cap of liberty. I was always fond of Thomas Jefferson, both personally and philosophically. We never argued on any subject. I knew Alexander Hamilton very little, but afterwards, have viewed with great favor his stratagems as the first Secretary of the Treasury and creator of the first Bank of the United States. (I regret that France did not follow a similar plan of sound finance.) I worked amicably with John Adams in the Second Continental Congress in preparation for the Declaration of Independence, but we parted company with regard to the ministry in France. Mr. Adams fancied that the French foreign minister and I were continually plotting against him, and I was persuaded that Mr. Adams meant well for his country, was always an honest man, and often a wise one, but sometimes and in some ways absolutely out of his senses. However, I am happy to report that here in the Heavens (which has a special place for those of us who founded this great nation), all of us get along royally, including John Adams and the Lee brothers! MARK SKOUSEN: I understand you made a one-word change in the Declaration of Independence. Was it important? DR. BEN FRANKLIN: In June, 1776, while still recovering from boils and the gout, I was resting at home when Mr. Jefferson asked me to peruse a draft of his Declaration and suggest any alterations as necessary. I made only a small number of minor changes, although I struck out the words "sacred and undeniable" and replaced them with "self-evident" so as to read "We hold these truths to be self-evident." However, having witnessed first hand Providence's hand in guiding our forces to victory, I might now be persuaded to keep Mr. Jefferson's original language, "We hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable." MARK SKOUSEN: Here's another controversial question from Buck D., who asks "How many illegitimate children did you father? I've heard you had over a dozen." DR. BEN FRANKLIN: Other than siring my son William, I had the good luck of escaping this risk. I have protected the privacy of William's mother throughout my life, and will not reveal her name even now. My good wife, Deborah, raised him as her own son, along with our daughter Sally. I suppose the rumor of promiscuous living was perpetuated by the fact that both my son, William, and his son, Temple, followed in my footsteps and experienced this same hard-to-govern passion of youth. Each sired illegitimate sons. MARK SKOUSEN: Did you ever reconcile with your son William, who was loyal to the Crown during the revolution. DR. BEN FRANKLIN: This is a disagreeable subject. I drop it. MARK SKOUSEN: Okay, perhaps on a lighter note, several IU subscribers want to know your favorite brew. D. S. asks, "Dr. Franklin, which do you prefer, a porter, an ale or a stout?" DR. BEN FRANKLIN: Ah, must I choose? Your question warms my spirit! I have always loved company, a chat, a laugh, a glass, and even a song, and relish the grave observations and wise sentences of old men's conversations. When I returned home to America I had shipped many bottles of good wine, and upon arrival of the shipment I once again enjoyed with great satisfaction drinking every day les beaux epurees de Passy, as they kept well, and seemed to be rendered more agreeable by the long voyage. Ah! Your question reminds me of the time the delegates arrived at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia in May of 1789. The principal people came from all the various states, what the French call une assemblee des notables, led by Gen. Washington. The delegates did me the honor of dining with me, when the cask of port was broached, and its contents met with the most cordial reception and universal approbation, and the company agreed unanimously on only one thing during the convention, that this was the best porter they had ever tasted! MARK SKOUSEN: Were you a regular drinker of beer and wine? DR. BEN FRANKLIN: Never to excess! As Poor Richard counsels, "Eat not to dullness. Drink not the elevation." When I was in London the first time, I saw that the press workers were great guzzlers of beer, who drank strong beer during working hours because they supposed that strong beer might be strong to labor. I thought it a detestable custom. I drank only water, and thus advanced beyond any of them. At the end of my life, suffering from the gout and the stone, I stopped drinking wine entirely. MARK SKOUSEN: Franklin a teetotaler? Hard to believe! Well, let's get back to some financial questions. Tom H. wants to know, "How does one become wealthy. Isn't it just luck?" DR. BEN FRANKLIN: Poor Richard says, "He that waits for fortune is never sure of dinner" and "God helps those who help themselves." I was of the opinion that the way to wealth, as I called it in my 1758 Almanac, depends chiefly on industry and frugality rather than luck. That is, waste neither time nor money, but make the best use of it. Without industry and frugality, nothing will do, and with them anything is possible. He that gets all he can honestly, and saves all he gets (necessary expenses excepted), will certainly become rich. As Poor Richard says, "Would you live with ease, do what you ought, and not what you please." In addition to hard work and economy, I advocate the growth of personal relationships with gentlemen of influence by joining a variety of clubs, civic organizations, churches, etc. etc. Finally, keep informed on the latest events. The used key is always bright! MARK SKOUSEN: IU subscribers Dawn D. and Beck S. want to know your opinion about all the in-fighting and partisan politics that go on in Washington these days. "Are you saddened by what you see in the Republic today?" DR. BEN FRANKLIN: In a free society, you cannot escape party politics. While we did not have Republicans and Democrats in my day, there were parties, such as the Constitutionalists and the Anti-Constitutionalists. Such discord will exist whenever there is liberty, and perhaps they will help to preserve it. By the collision of different sentiments, sparks of truth strike out, and political light is obtained. MARK SKOUSEN: B. C. asks, "What's your opinion of today's leaders, including President Bush?" DR. BEN FRANKLIN: There are two passions which have a powerful influence in the affairs of men, ambition and avarice: the love of power and the love of money….And what kind of men will strive for this profitable pre-eminence, thro' all the bustle of cabal, the heat of contention, the infinite mutual abuse of parties, tearing to pieces the best of characters? It will not be the wise and moderate, the lovers of peace and good order, the men fittest for the trust. It will be the bold and the violent, the men of strong passions and indefatigable activity in their selfish pursuits. These will trust themselves to this government and be their rulers…I am apprehensive, therefore, perhaps too apprehensive, that the government of these states may in future times end in a monarchy, and a king will the sooner be set over us. MARK SKOUSEN: Gee, I thought you said you were an optimist! DR. BEN FRANKLIN: I am a mortal enemy to arbitrary government and unlimited power. I am naturally jealous for the rights and liberties of my country, and the least encroachment of those invaluable privileges is apt to make my blood boil. MARK SKOUSEN: Would our democracy be better with campaign finance reform? DR. BEN FRANKLIN: I am sorry to see a disposition among many in your country to commence an aristocracy, by giving the rich a predominancy in government. But I am not sure how you can avert it. MARK SKOUSEN: F. G. asks what you think of today's media? Is it any different from the press of your day? DR. BEN FRANKLIN: Your press is tame compared to our time! Granted, I firmly believe in the freedom of the press, and that through the collision of different sentiments, sparks of truth strike out. But I often observed the spirit of rancor and hatred in our newspapers in Philadelphia. For I could not help but notice the inconsistency that strikes me between the name of our city, Philadelphia, brotherly love, and the spirit of malice that breathed in its newspapers. MARK SKOUSEN: G. Blake asks, "What is your concept of separation of church and state?" and Dr. N. P. asks, "Has the Supreme Court gone too far in taking prayer out of our schools?" DR. BEN FRANKLIN: I thought the clause in our Pennsylvania constitution, which requires the members of the assembly to declare their belief in divine inspiration, had better have been omitted. It is proper that no religious sect is established as predominant, but there is a general toleration of all. Yet God governs in the affairs of men, that I know. We had daily prayers in the Carpenter's Hall in Philadelphia during our deliberations for divine protection, and our prayers were answered. At the Constitutional Convention, I implored the Congress to hold prayers in the assembly every morning, but unfortunately, only three or four persons thought prayers were unnecessary. MARK SKOUSEN: Today America is fighting another war, this one against terrorism, and some of our subscribers are concerned about the Patriot Act trampling our civil liberties. Gustav K. writes, "You were among the founding fathers and composers of the greatest Constitutional document ever. What would you do to confront the totalitarian regimes of today?" DR. BEN FRANKLIN: I cannot comprehend why cruel men should be permitted to destroy their fellow creatures. Our cause should be the cause of all mankind. God grant that not only the love of liberty but a thorough knowledge of the rights of man may pervade all nations of the earth so that a philosopher may set his foot anywhere on its surface and say, this is my country! MARK SKOUSEN: So you think the war in Iraq is justified? DR. BEN FRANKLIN: The best foreign policy in America is to have commerce with all nations and war with none. For in my opinion there never was a good war, or a bad peace. What vast additions to the conveniences and comforts of living might mankind have acquired if the money spent in wars had been employed in works of public utility! MARK SKOUSEN: R. T. wants to know your reaction to the government's Patriot Act and its potential loss of freedom. DR. BEN FRANKLIN: You should be worried. Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. MARK SKOUSEN: And Tony E. asks, "What do you think about the death penalty?" DR. BEN FRANKLIN: When I was in Europe, I read newspaper accounts from London that a woman was punished by death for privately stealing from a shop some gauze valued at 14 shillings three pence. Is there any proportion between the injury done by a theft valued at 14 s. 3d., and the punishment of the human creature by death on a gibbet? I am happy to see the number of capital crimes reduced considerably since I was alive. Punishments should be proportioned according to offenses. MARK SKOUSEN: R. Morrison hopes to find out your views on the war on drugs. Should drugs such as heroin and marijuana be legalized? DR. BEN FRANKLIN: I favor its use in moderation. In the last few years of my life, I was so interrupted by excruciating pain from the stone that I felt obliged to use opium. I'm not sure how I could have survived such extreme pain without this medical substance. MARK SKOUSEN: And what should be the best domestic policy? DR. BEN FRANKLIN: When I was a colonial agent in London, the celebrated Dr. Adam Smith was in the habit of bringing by chapter after chapter as he composed The Wealth of Nations. I convinced him of the virtues of an independent America, and he convinced me of his system of natural liberty. As the French say, Laissez nous faire: let us alone, and Pas trop gouverner, do not govern too strictly. Commerce should be free and unrestrained. No nation was ever ruined by trade. Immigration does not diminish but multiplies a nation. MARK SKOUSEN: K. T. wants to know this: "Given your famed advocacy of thrift ('a penny saved is a penny earned'), would you favor a tax on consumption but not savings?" DR. BEN FRANKLIN: Those who fail to pay their fair share of public dues should retire and live among the savages. In my day, our mode of collecting these dues, or taxes, was yet imperfect, relying as we did on import duties. We were so sparsely settled that we could not impose direct taxes on land. Today, with a large population, direct taxes are convenient, and should be used to educate the youth and pay for a justice system and the general welfare of the nation. Yet I fear that your government is so enlarged beyond necessity that too much power has been given to revenue authorities, and I am reminded of our Declaration of Independence, which warned of erecting a multitude of new offices and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people, and eat out of their substance. Any proposal that will eliminate this abuse of the people's trust should be considered. MARK SKOUSEN: D. Desmond asks, "Is it time for another Boston Tea Party, since we seem to be getting much taxation but little representation?" DR. BEN FRANKLIN: It is too early for another American revolution. America is still a great nation with much liberty. As between friends every affront is not worth a duel, and between nations every injury is not worth a war, so between the governed and the governing, every mistake in government, every encroachment on rights, is not worth a rebellion. But I agree with Gen. Washington that "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is dangerous servant and a fearful master." Every American citizen must be alert to the encroachments of government power. MARK SKOUSEN: B. Henry (no relation to Patrick Henry, he says) wants to know, "Are you not alarmed by the size of the federal deficit and our huge national debt, and how much we owe to foreigners?" DR. BEN FRANKLIN: Honesty is just as important for the nation as it is for individuals. Therefore we are never fully independent until we have discharged our public debt. No revenue is sufficient without economy. A man's industry and frugality will pay his debts and get him forward in the world. The same is true of government. I favor a good, cheap government. A virtuous and industrious people may be cheaply governed! MARK SKOUSEN: J. F. asks, "In your original Autobiography, you list 13 virtues. Now, 300 years after your birth, which one ranks the most important for the 21st century?" DR. BEN FRANKLIN: The world has achieved great progress since I left, and freedom is growing around the world. All of the 13 virtues are important, for only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters. But I have always believed that America is too enlightened to be enslaved. Still, if I could hope for you to adopt only one of the 13 virtues, it would be moderation, to avoid extremes. And forebear injuries from your neighbors, friends and countries. By following this principle, peace and prosperity for all will not be far behind. And if I might emphasize one other virtue, it would be silence. It seems to me that earth life is full of noise today. The world needs more peace and quiet, reverence and meditation. Silence is a virtue practiced everywhere here in the Heavens. MARK SKOUSEN: M. Branson asks, "Are you disturbed by the scandals of several high profile CEOs such as Enron, Worldcom, etc.?" DR. BEN FRANKLIN: Business forms the foundation of our prosperity, and therefore the business community must set the highest standards of honesty and integrity, above the rules and regulations of government. I always made it a policy that nothing was useful which was not honest. MARK SKOUSEN: Yesterday, we celebrated Martin Luther King Day, a national holiday. What do you think of America having a holiday honoring the civil rights of blacks and all races? DR. BEN FRANKLIN: I am wholly supportive of this great cause. In 1764, I visited the Negro School in Philadelphia (which I helped found) and was on the whole much pleased, and from what I then saw, conceived a higher opinion of the natural capacities of the black race, than I had ever before entertained. Their apprehension seems as quick, their memory as strong, and their docility in every respect equal to that of white children. For years I owned a few slaves, but discontinued the practice in the final years of my life. I became president of the Philadelphia Society for the Abolishment of Slavery, the first of its kind, and sent letters to all gentlemen of character and influence to expose the inequity of the slave trade. I was also mindful of the ill-treatment of the American Indians, and commented that it appeared to me that every war between the Indians and the whites was occasioned by some injustice of the latter toward the former. I opposed all wars with the Indians, and thought it best to buy their land than to take by force. MARK SKOUSEN: Before I ask my next series of questions, I would like to remind IU subscribers of several important upcoming events. At the annual Investment U, scheduled for March 15-18 at the Del Ray Beach Marriott Hotel in Florida, we are planning to announce the winner of the first Benny Award, the Benjamin Franklin Award for Wealth Creation. This year Investment U will focus on each of the expert's personal best strategy to make money this year. We already have 180 registrations for this popular conference, and we can only take 250, so if you are interested, please sign up today at… I also wanted to follow up with Ben Franklin's positive views on China. Alex Green and I are heading up a financial investigation to China and Hong Kong on March 24-April 6. If you would like to join us, go to http://www.agoratravel.com/china/ and check out the itinerary. This is going to be a once-in-a-lifetime investment tour of China that you won't want to miss. Now let's continue with a question from T. H., who wants to know your religious views now that you have gone on to the world of the spirits. DR. BEN FRANKLIN: I was educated as a Presbyterian, but with the European Enlightenment, I become a doubter of the faith, and many of my religious friends accused me of being a heretic and non-believer because of my not being a regular church-goer. But I never doubted the existence of the Deity, who I acknowledge to have greatly blessed my life. And during the revolutionary war, I came to the realization that God governs in the affairs of men. All of us engaged in the struggle for freedom witnessed frequent instances of Providence intervening in our favor. Nevertheless, my faith was of a more pragmatic religion, consisting of good works and charity rather than making long prayers, and attending church sermons and ceremonies. MARK SKOUSEN: Are you happy to see commerce flourish everywhere, even on the Sabbath Day? DR. BEN FRANKLIN: When I traveled in Flanders (Holland) I thought of the excessive strict observation of Sunday in Connecticut; and that a man could hardly travel on that day without hazard of punishment; while where I was in Flanders, every one traveled, and in the afternoon both high and low went to play or the opera, where there was plenty of singing, fiddling and dancing. I looked round for God's judgment but saw no signs of them. The cities were well built and full of inhabitants, the markets filled with plenty, the people well favored and well clothed; the fields well tilled; the cattle fat and strong; the fences, and houses and windows all in repair. MARK SKOUSEN: Alfred S. wants to know that if you were alive today, would you attend a Billy Graham rally? DR. BEN FRANKLIN: Although I was not a regular church-goer in my time, I did attend sermons of famous ministers from time to time. I once attended a sermon by the famed Rev. Whitefield, who had a loud and clear voice that could be heard by 8000 people at once. At first I resolved not to give him any donation. I had in my pocket a handful of copper money, three or four silver dollars, and five pistoles of gold. As he proceeded I began to soften and concluded to give him the coppers. Another stroke of his oratory determined me to give the silver, and he finished so admirably that I emptied my pocket wholly into the collector's plate! I suspect Mr. Graham would have the same effect upon me, which is why I avoided attending church regularly! MARK SKOUSEN: In a recent visit to your gravesite in Christ's Church in Philadelphia, I noticed that there is no epitaph on your burial stone. It only states "Benjamin and Deborah Franklin" and the birth and death dates. If you could place an epitaph on your gravesite, what would it say? DR. BEN FRANKLIN: I would want it to say "He lived usefully," rather than, "He died rich!" MARK SKOUSEN: If you could give us your most important message for us in the 21st century, what would it be? DR. BEN FRANKLIN: I just said it! Live usefully. I have found it a common thing that most businessmen and investors are more focused on their self-interest than the public interest, and that they pile up millions of dollars to no purpose except to live extravagantly and play idle games. When I retired at age 42, I thought it beneficial to use my time and money to better the local community and the nation. We paved roads, and built hospitals, schools, fire stations, and a militia, all for the general welfare of the people, and I was happy to play a small part in helping our community and our nation. It is incredible the quantity of good that may be done in a country by a single man or woman who will make a business of it, and not suffer to be diverted from that purpose by different avocations, studies or amusement. America is a nation blessed by God and can still achieve great things if each of you will apply my 13 virtues -- temperance, silence, order, resolution, frugality, industry, sincerely, justice, moderation, cleanliness, tranquility, chastity, and humility! MARK SKOUSEN: Thanks so much for that counsel. Well, it looks like we're running out of time. Let's see if we can get in a few more questions. This one is from Todd H. "A few weeks before you died, you wrote that you had some doubts as to the divinity of Jesus, but that you expected soon to know the truth with less trouble. What did you learn about Jesus when you died?" DR. BEN FRANKLIN: Oh, oh, I have learned a great truth! It is this.. MARK SKOUSEN: Dr. Franklin? Are you still there? MARK SKOUSEN: We seem to have lost Dr. Franklin! Well, I'm sorry we didn't get him to answer that last question. Perhaps he still believes in an "early to bed" philosophy! In any case, we are honored to have the illustrious Dr. Franklin back for this brief interview, and we hope you enjoyed it. Ben Franklin is truly the founder of America's growth machine. I encourage all of you to read a special tribute I have written on the 300th birthday of Ben Franklin. To read it, click here http://www.mskousen.com. Also, if you haven't already done so, I recommend you pick up a copy of The Compleated Autobiography, by Benjamin Franklin, which covers the last 33 years of his illustrious career. Click here to order. I would like to thank all those who made this special event possible at Investment U. We thank you all for your attention and your excellent questions, and we look forward to another "Celebrity Crossover" event soon. (And stay tuned to receive an email from us with a survey of tonight's program.) Until then, as Ben Franklin would say, Be Free! Good trading, AEIOU, Mark Interview with Ben Franklin - Part 1 | Investment U Interview Series Archive
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